Conversation With America's Renowned Sex Therapist

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Welcome to Why Is It So. I'm your host Paul.

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Thanks for joining us today and buckle up because we are delving into a topic

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that makes some people sweat, others blush and a few say wait are we really talking about that?

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Yes, yes and yes we are.

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Joining me today is a very special guest all the way from the US.

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She's a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified sex therapist.

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Basically, she's the person you wish had taught your high school sex ed class

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because she actually knows what she's talking about.

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She's on a mission to normalize conversations about sex and sexual health.

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And let's be honest, the world could use a lot more of that.

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She hosts a weekly YouTube show where she tackles everything from intimacy to communication.

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And she's even a published author.

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She's not just smart, she's book smart.

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And if you're already intrigued or slightly panicking about your browser history,

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you can find everything about her work at her website at Open Bedroom Doors.

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She absolutely loves what she does and genuinely enjoys helping people open

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up, sometimes literally, sometimes emotionally.

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So without further ado, let me introduce the brilliant, the always candid, Angela Skartu.

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Good morning. Good afternoon.

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I don't normally get up this early.

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How early is it where you are 7 30 so it's not too good i've had worse,

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have you been nice to meet you yeah good to meet you too yeah here it's 4 30

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so i'm like i'm ending my day so when you said morning i was like well i guess

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it is for him yeah of course well i mean you're halfway across the world and

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I am too, right? Exactly.

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Isn't technology fantastic? Just a push of the button and we could be talking

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to someone on the other side of the world. Fantastic.

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Anyway, Angela, thank you very much for your time. Tell us a little bit about

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yourself. We're all looking forward to what you have to tell us.

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Yeah, sure. So I am a marriage and a sex therapist and

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i got started in 2008 and a

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little bit of my why is i was actually watching

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this show talk sex with sue johansson way

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back in the day it was this older lady who was a nurse who would answer questions

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about sex on tv and then she would play with sex toys and give people like a

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rating for how well the sex toys worked and whether she recommended you use

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them yourself And I just thought she was so hilarious.

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I thought to myself that that is what I want to do with my life I committed

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my life to that from 2008 until now Probably till I die.

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But it would be quite a happy type of thing that you sort of got most of the time, I would say.

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I'm sure you hear some weird and wonderful stories. I can't even imagine where

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they'd come from, but I'm sure there is some times that you can't stop laughing.

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Oh, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because it depends on the context where I hear this story.

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So I would say in the therapy room, this is my therapy office that I'm in,

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it's more unhappy stories because people don't come see a therapist when they're

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like, hey, I'm so happy. Here's money.

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But on my show, I have the Open Bedroom Doors show. And on that, I get funny stories.

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And then in life, I actually get stories, too. Like I have these people who

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want to like jolt me since I'm a sex therapist. So they'll try and tell me something

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weird they learned about sex.

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And sometimes they do you know they do get me i'm like oh

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i've never heard it that's new yeah just

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on that when a person like a couple decide to

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come to you is it usually the the guys that

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make the contact or the females i couldn't imagine the guy ringing up and saying

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oh we want to have a couple of sessions with you it's usually the woman i would

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imagine i actually it is the guy believe it or not it is usually so So sex is

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a very taboo topic in my country, so I'm in the United States,

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and sex is such a taboo topic that women are often a little bit nervous to see me.

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Now, that's actually why I have to be careful with my marketing.

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If I market myself as a marriage counselor, then a woman is more comfortable

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coming to me and talking to me.

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But when I market myself as a sex therapist, it's more the man who wants to

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reach out. But here's the weird caveat.

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They don't know how to talk to each other about sex. And so the guy will research

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me and my YouTube channel, my show, and he will have watched me.

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Probably six months to a year. And that will happen is his wife at some point,

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because of course they're having issues and the wife will bring up,

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we need to see a counselor.

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We should see a marriage counselor. And he'll say, I have the person.

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And that is as a joint effort, how people most likely come see me. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. So, okay. Because for some reason I just had this thing about guys not wanting to do anything.

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It's like if they're sick, they don't want to go and see a doctor.

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They'll sort of say, oh, no, I'll go next month. You know what I'm saying?

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They don't want to see a doctor. They don't want to see a marriage therapist.

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But they absolutely want to see a sex therapist because I potentially promise orgasms.

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Would that frighten up the woman? That does, yes. That's why I have to market

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as both a marriage and sex therapist because when I'm marketing to women,

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I need to promote intimacy, communication, and emotional closeness.

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But for men, they're more comfortable coming to see me because they're like,

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okay, she's a sex therapist. At least she'll talk about the topic I'm interested in.

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Right. Yeah. Okay.

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So we have it confirmed that men do the approach, but from what you just said

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earlier, their problem is well and truly embedded in them before they get to see you.

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So how do you go about sort of

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wiggling them into the conversation to find out what the real reason is.

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I'm sure they come in and talk to you about a million things,

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but don't mention the reason they're there. Would I be right?

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Yeah, I would say it unfolds, right? So people might start with communication.

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We're having trouble with communication, or they may start with desire discrepancy.

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That actually is one of the most common sex reasons people come to see me is

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that one of them has a higher desire than the other one.

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But then as it unfolds and I talk to them, I'll find out that the female maybe

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is having pain during intercourse.

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And so it's not just desire, but there's actually a physical problem underneath.

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Or the lack of desire is that the male is actually having erectile dysfunction

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and they don't know how to address that directly.

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And so then both of them are avoiding the topic because they,

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you know, maybe they've tried your viagras or cialis and they

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still aren't working but they still don't know how to talk to each other

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so it starts with a topic like that or infidelity is the third most common topic

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that comes up and then it layers down to these other things and really to me

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what it boils down to is when sexual problems occur which they will people don't

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know how to talk to each other in a.

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Yeah. So if you continue with that, how deep do you delve and how personal does

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it get with them? I suppose that's pretty personal, wouldn't it?

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Absolutely. It gets very personal. I am a very holistic therapist.

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So I think of mind, heart, and interrelational connection, right?

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So I dig into things they're saying to themselves.

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Actually, my book, my current book is from the F word no to F word yes sex.

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In that book, I talk about the thoughts people have and the shame they have

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associated with sex and sexual health.

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And so I spend a lot of time in this, like in the psyche, like what's going on?

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What are ways that you basically just talk yourself out of sex?

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So that's one. But then I also incorporate the emotional and heart piece,

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like emotionally, how are they interacting with each other?

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How are they creating an environment of war or coldness in their environment?

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Like there's ways there's couples that don't even talk to each other or they're

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so busy with work and kids that they never have time for something fun with

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each other. they don't have hobbies.

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If they do finally go on a date, it's like once a month.

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And so they're finally together, but they're basically jumping over a huge hurdle

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to get to intimacy because they don't even have day-to-day intimacy.

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And so there's a lot of depth to the conversation. And then I am behavioral too.

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I want to teach people tangible skills to improve their sex life.

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And so like to break that down i might start

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if they're already at least in the friend zone with each

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other how do we get to flirty friends right so how do you just start spending

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time with each other putting out a little bit of affection you know so that's

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the other thing so guys will come in because they know that i'll talk about

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sex but they're often not prepared for the slowness of sex therapy they're like

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let's get in here and let's get that quick fix but it's you're,

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basically trying to change a whole life of habits that are distancing you as a couple.

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And so there is a lot of things that I have to do to help them create habits to come back together.

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And I will say that's one area where the guys get annoyed initially.

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And I just tell them, hey, like if you can put this energy in,

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then you'll get what you want in the long run.

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But we have a lot to change by the time they come see me. Yeah.

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You mentioned about the kids and whatever have you. what age

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age range are the

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people that that come and see you what are the most common are

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they young people are they older people they mid what's

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this what's your demographic i have

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three clients that are my most typical clients the first one is after the second

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baby is born so in in our cultural you know united states culture the typical

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way is to you have your first baby and And then that's when desire starts to

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slowly go down at that point.

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But then there's this period between first baby and second baby where they try

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to have sex again. And so that it revs up and they feel like, okay, this is better.

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We're focused on each other. But by the time they have their second baby.

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Then desire completely tanks because their whole life then becomes wrapped around

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the children and work and not around each other as much.

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So it's usually two years after baby two.

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That's client one. The second client couple is when they made it past that,

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they stayed together and they just focused, like they basically justified,

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you know, this is just the season of kids.

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We're going to focus on kids. But once they get a little older,

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then we'll focus on each other.

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But then they basically have lost each other in that period.

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So it's as the kids start getting more independent and they realize that what

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they had hoped would happen is not happening.

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And essentially they've distanced further and further. So that's the second

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couple. And this is like around when kids are 9, 8, 9-ish, 10-ish.

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And then the final most common couple is when the kids are launching,

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actually, and they are in that empty nester space.

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And they, you know, like, again,

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people will somehow make it through that last phase I just mentioned.

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They'll find some way to justify it. Maybe they get involved in other things.

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But then now the kids are gone. There's just no excuse.

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Like, what else is there? We're here together and we have nothing to connect to ourselves.

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And so that empty nester phase, when the kids have launched and they're alone,

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that is, that one is an important one. Because if they've made it that far,

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that's like, think of how many years that is of them distancing from each other.

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So it's pretty hard to get them back together?

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How do you work that? I mean, it just depends.

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I work with those couples. So there are plenty of couples who find their way

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back. Actually, one of the longest couples was 30 years they had been in a sexless

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marriage, but they both were pretty motivated to make it work.

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And so I would say it depends on if they want it for themselves.

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Right. And so if they want to find a way to come back to each other and they

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genuinely care about each other.

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And, you know, why I love the best friends is usually there's something in the

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relationship worth fighting for.

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Right. Like they still care about each other. They partner well.

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They vacation well. This is just one area they struggle with.

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So I would say those couples actually have pretty good outcomes.

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It's when couples are not sexual, they're fighting pretty hard,

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and the resentment is so heavy that they're not even friends anymore.

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That's when I'm concerned that this isn't probably going to work out.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be trying to get them back after they've been,

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as you say, fighting for quite a few years.

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And they say, well, how do we go back to where we were, I would imagine?

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Yeah, well, I call them the crossroads in relationship, but like there are these

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crossroads where you can either come together or your road diverges.

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And if you cross enough of those where you just keep distancing,

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essentially one or both of them moves on, but they've lost respect for their partner.

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And if you hit these crossroads of like, for example, grief,

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like good story would be someone's parent dies or someone really important dies

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in the family, like a child or a parent, someone close,

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and they don't find a way to come together through that grief.

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And so that is a crossroad right where it's

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like i'm going through a really serious significant grief And I need you to

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be here for me and you're not if they don't then that's one of those crossroads

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that creates lack of respect And builds resentment and the longer couples go

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through those Without coming together the further they distance and there's a point where you.

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You've distanced so far. There isn't any coming back.

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But the couples that can come back are ones that through some of that still

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had some friendship intimacy, found a way to support each other in emotional ways.

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They may not be sexual or have a lot of desire, but they still found a way to

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be there for each other through it.

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Those couples tend to do better, even if it has been 10 or 20 years of like

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low sexless marriage is just 10 or less a year. But some people it's been zero.

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I just for the definitions, it's

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10 or less times a year if you're in a sexless marriage of having sex.

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But so, yeah, the couples who have some sort of friendship dynamic can at least come back from it.

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But the ones who just keep breaking each other's trust and like

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building that resentment eventually do divorce or they

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live in what we call the empty shell of a marriage where

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they stayed together but there's no real i mean it's

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an empty shell does that make sense this is like they're there but you're

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like are they do they really get any you know those couples

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you've probably seen them you're like all right i guess they stayed together

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well well you always see i

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mean if you're talking to a guy and whatever have you it's always

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always seems to be the guys complaining saying

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oh yeah she had a headache or you know

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i couldn't get there on time or whatever but they they seem to be and i must

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admit i don't talk to women about this so much but do they complain about hey

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he didn't do this or he didn't do that the same as a guy sort of you know complains

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yeah i would say It depends on the problem they're dealing with.

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So more stereotypically, women are complaining that men aren't emotionally available for them.

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And men are complaining that women aren't sexually available for them.

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So when I get a couple in balance, what I help them do is I help the woman become

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more sexually empowered and take more initiative there.

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And I help the man become more emotionally empowered and take more initiative

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there. And if I can get them both doing both, then they can make a better relationship going forward.

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And again, that's why it's so much easier if they're already best friends,

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because they really do have the emotional component. They just need that little

00:16:47.666 --> 00:16:51.506
push in the bedroom to be like, okay, well, here's how you make this spicy now.

00:16:51.906 --> 00:16:59.126
Yeah, okay, yeah. So when people come to you and they start talking to you, where do you start?

00:16:59.566 --> 00:17:05.166
I know you've come part of it, but the start of, okay, this is how we're going to do it.

00:17:05.658 --> 00:17:10.298
Yeah, so I first assess for things like how long has the problem started?

00:17:10.498 --> 00:17:11.778
When did it seem to start?

00:17:12.158 --> 00:17:17.538
I look for things like their communication pattern. Are they actually talking and hearing each other?

00:17:17.758 --> 00:17:23.398
Or does one of them talk and the other person interpret it way different than what was intended?

00:17:23.698 --> 00:17:26.898
So I'm an objective-ish person in the room.

00:17:26.898 --> 00:17:30.778
I don't have any history with any of the things the two of them are saying, right?

00:17:30.778 --> 00:17:33.718
And so I can take the initial message and

00:17:33.718 --> 00:17:37.018
hear what I think was intended and I

00:17:37.018 --> 00:17:39.978
do a little testing too right of like is this what you meant by

00:17:39.978 --> 00:17:43.338
this because I you know I'm not in people's heads I do have to make sure I'm

00:17:43.338 --> 00:17:48.078
clear with what the message is but usually what will I will look for is how

00:17:48.078 --> 00:17:51.278
well they're hearing and understanding each other's messages do they really

00:17:51.278 --> 00:17:55.918
get each other or is there this big chasm between each other where this person

00:17:55.918 --> 00:17:59.378
says this but this person And here's this other thing way over here.

00:17:59.538 --> 00:18:03.918
And if that's really far away, then a big part of my work, even before I can

00:18:03.918 --> 00:18:08.278
get to intimacy, is how do I get them to understand each other?

00:18:08.638 --> 00:18:11.518
And there are a couple, it's like I had a couple today that literally it's like

00:18:11.518 --> 00:18:13.098
they're speaking two different languages.

00:18:13.398 --> 00:18:17.978
They genuinely love each other. They are trying. Like I've been working with them for over a year.

00:18:18.158 --> 00:18:23.398
But like he speaks very direct, very clear, very logical to the point like there's

00:18:23.398 --> 00:18:26.978
no like in between. And she is all the in between.

00:18:27.138 --> 00:18:30.258
Like everything in between the lines.

00:18:30.478 --> 00:18:35.238
And so like, there are all these little stories or situations where they like

00:18:35.238 --> 00:18:37.538
the example today was a peanut butter sandwich.

00:18:37.718 --> 00:18:41.398
He said, I want a peanut butter sandwich today at lunch. Um,

00:18:41.757 --> 00:18:46.557
And she read between lines and said to herself, oh, peanut butter and jelly

00:18:46.557 --> 00:18:47.917
sandwich. Well, you know what?

00:18:48.177 --> 00:18:51.497
Maybe he'll want a jelly sandwich, peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

00:18:51.637 --> 00:18:54.577
So just in case, I'm going to put both peanut butter and jelly out.

00:18:54.737 --> 00:18:58.357
But he is like, no, I just want peanut butter.

00:18:58.517 --> 00:19:03.057
Like when you added this, it's like you're not listening to me.

00:19:03.517 --> 00:19:07.597
She's like, I'm just trying to be considerate and consider what you maybe didn't think about.

00:19:07.777 --> 00:19:13.937
Right. And it's a silly example, but it's an example of how far apart their

00:19:13.937 --> 00:19:17.417
communication styles can be, even in a small sandwich.

00:19:18.597 --> 00:19:24.617
Do you find people are sort of getting into problems too little with things like that?

00:19:24.697 --> 00:19:29.377
Because when you listen to that, you think, for God's sake, it's a peanut butter sandwich.

00:19:29.717 --> 00:19:35.177
How important can it be? Do you find that small things like that sort of trigger the whole situation?

00:19:35.357 --> 00:19:38.137
Or there's got to be something deeper? it yeah oh there is there

00:19:38.137 --> 00:19:41.697
is the peanut butter sandwich is always a metaphor right it's

00:19:41.697 --> 00:19:44.677
a metaphor for the deeper you just don't get me right

00:19:44.677 --> 00:19:47.637
like of course we went into other things and i figured peanut butter

00:19:47.637 --> 00:19:50.757
sandwich is a safe thing to say out in the world that nobody's

00:19:50.757 --> 00:19:54.637
going to care about right but like their deeper issues are theirs that i need

00:19:54.637 --> 00:19:59.057
to protect and hold sacred right but like yes the peanut butter sandwich is

00:19:59.057 --> 00:20:02.757
a metaphor for do you get me do you see do you understand why this is important

00:20:02.757 --> 00:20:06.417
to me or i always say like every couple has had a fight about dishes at some

00:20:06.417 --> 00:20:08.537
point, but the dishes fight isn't dishes.

00:20:08.777 --> 00:20:15.837
It's about representation. It's about are we both putting effort into our chores at the house?

00:20:15.977 --> 00:20:19.657
Do we have a similar system for how we're figuring out to do dishes?

00:20:19.857 --> 00:20:24.317
Do we even have an ability to resolve a conflict around dishes,

00:20:24.317 --> 00:20:26.037
or are we just going to fight

00:20:26.436 --> 00:20:30.296
and then go to our separate corners every time a dish situation occurs.

00:20:30.776 --> 00:20:34.516
Absolutely. It's always this small thing, but the small thing is representative

00:20:34.516 --> 00:20:36.976
of like this iceberg below.

00:20:38.096 --> 00:20:45.036
Yeah. Do you get situations where one of the partners gets into another affair,

00:20:45.256 --> 00:20:47.236
if you like, with someone?

00:20:47.596 --> 00:20:52.216
Everything's going along at home as if it's good, but obviously there must be

00:20:52.216 --> 00:20:54.216
a problem if they sort of stray.

00:20:54.516 --> 00:20:59.456
Yeah. So I do get a lot of infidelity cases. My second book is Helping Couples

00:20:59.456 --> 00:21:02.056
Overcome Infidelity, and it's available on Amazon.

00:21:02.136 --> 00:21:06.356
And I write about different styles of cheating because there's actually,

00:21:06.596 --> 00:21:09.156
there's more than one prototype of cheating.

00:21:09.376 --> 00:21:12.596
So there's the one-timers, and then there's chronic cheaters.

00:21:12.916 --> 00:21:18.756
And for one-timers, I would say there's not always some big burning problem.

00:21:18.976 --> 00:21:23.076
Sometimes there is, and that's the way they justify it. But other times,

00:21:23.316 --> 00:21:27.456
it's just that the opportunity was there and they didn't set clear boundaries

00:21:27.456 --> 00:21:31.376
in the relationship to stop it. So that's one of the challenges.

00:21:31.776 --> 00:21:36.836
Actually, that's one of the hardest ones for people to resolve is if there is

00:21:36.836 --> 00:21:39.096
some big burning problem in the relationship,

00:21:39.276 --> 00:21:42.856
then at least they can justify and say, well, this sucks, but these are the

00:21:42.856 --> 00:21:46.856
things that we did to get to this outcome with cheating, right?

00:21:46.856 --> 00:21:51.656
But when there wasn't anything really bad happening and the person just did

00:21:51.656 --> 00:21:54.576
it because the opportunity arose and they didn't set boundaries,

00:21:54.896 --> 00:21:59.036
that one is more painful to resolve because I've had couples in here say.

00:21:59.627 --> 00:22:04.147
Well, we were having sex. We were having, we, and the partner who cheated will

00:22:04.147 --> 00:22:09.367
say, oh no, we have a good relationship. It's actually fine. I just made a mistake.

00:22:09.667 --> 00:22:14.247
And that's where, when those situations occur, I wonder, it depends,

00:22:14.387 --> 00:22:16.407
like if they're chronic cheaters,

00:22:16.747 --> 00:22:20.307
for example, people who are going to do it multiple times, sometimes they,

00:22:20.527 --> 00:22:24.987
those types are in that category and it's just the first time they did cheat.

00:22:25.207 --> 00:22:28.187
Right. And so, and those are harder to solve.

00:22:28.447 --> 00:22:33.927
They're harder to fix the relationship because it might be the first time among many times.

00:22:34.187 --> 00:22:38.627
And so, okay, they work on it. It gets better. And then suddenly it happens again.

00:22:38.827 --> 00:22:43.587
You know, I think I probably have a little more compassion for the ones where

00:22:43.587 --> 00:22:48.047
there was at least problems, but ultimately I don't think cheating is the way

00:22:48.047 --> 00:22:49.367
to solve any of your problems.

00:22:49.487 --> 00:22:52.827
I think I would like for couples to talk to each other and figure it out before

00:22:52.827 --> 00:22:57.207
they break the marriage because it's way more painful to resolve things once you've cheated.

00:22:57.667 --> 00:23:03.667
Yeah. Do you feel that the woman is more inclined to cheat or is it the guys?

00:23:03.907 --> 00:23:07.207
I think it would probably be the guys, and I don't know why,

00:23:07.287 --> 00:23:12.607
but I think that would be the person who would cheat more often than the wife,

00:23:12.687 --> 00:23:14.687
if you like. No? They're both cheating.

00:23:14.947 --> 00:23:18.967
Because if you think about it, every guy who's cheating, if he's heterosexual,

00:23:19.087 --> 00:23:22.087
is cheating with some woman, and usually they're both married.

00:23:22.287 --> 00:23:28.287
Yeah. So it's about the same. The most common story for cheating is both of

00:23:28.287 --> 00:23:34.087
them have some recent big event that occurred in their life that really rocked them.

00:23:34.347 --> 00:23:36.847
And a death can be one of these events.

00:23:37.127 --> 00:23:43.247
And then about a year or so later, they are still depressed and grieving this

00:23:43.247 --> 00:23:48.307
loss. and they may also be kind of in a status quo with their partners.

00:23:48.587 --> 00:23:51.047
So like things aren't really great, but they're not really terrible.

00:23:51.207 --> 00:23:53.567
They're just kind of bored and restless.

00:23:53.847 --> 00:23:57.767
And this is the thing. So death breathes new life into people.

00:23:58.127 --> 00:24:02.627
And so when you face death, you realize I only have so much life to live.

00:24:02.767 --> 00:24:05.527
And is this all there is? And so there's something about death.

00:24:05.687 --> 00:24:08.507
There's something about 40 that year when everybody turns 40,

00:24:08.587 --> 00:24:10.247
because again, you're halfway to death, right? Right.

00:24:10.367 --> 00:24:14.047
And so even if there's the death at 40, you realize, oh, my gosh,

00:24:14.167 --> 00:24:15.947
I only have so many years to live left.

00:24:16.127 --> 00:24:18.227
This might be half of my life. And it does.

00:24:18.427 --> 00:24:22.787
You do this kind of natural subconscious scan of your life. And you think,

00:24:22.887 --> 00:24:24.407
is this going to work for me?

00:24:24.507 --> 00:24:26.687
And do I want this or do I want something more?

00:24:26.947 --> 00:24:30.467
And so then what will happen is two of these people, you know,

00:24:30.547 --> 00:24:34.607
in a heterosexual couple, it's a male and a female, but it's not always a heterosexual

00:24:34.607 --> 00:24:38.487
cheating. I've had I work with people in the LGBTQ community as well.

00:24:38.807 --> 00:24:44.107
But so two of these people in this sort of disillusioned state meet each other.

00:24:44.187 --> 00:24:45.407
They cross paths somehow.

00:24:45.627 --> 00:24:48.967
And it might be even friendly, like they're at work or maybe at a gym and they

00:24:48.967 --> 00:24:51.287
just start chatting and they really start out as friends.

00:24:51.804 --> 00:24:56.264
And then one or one of them kind of throws out a flirty thing and the other

00:24:56.264 --> 00:24:57.644
one doesn't really stop it.

00:24:57.844 --> 00:25:01.284
They lean in and they just slowly start taking these steps.

00:25:01.544 --> 00:25:05.544
And then like once they break. So there's a point of no return.

00:25:05.784 --> 00:25:10.024
And that's when somebody says they're interested in the other person and then they requite it.

00:25:10.184 --> 00:25:12.884
So if somebody says I'm interested and the other person's like,

00:25:12.964 --> 00:25:15.404
whatever, then usually it'll stop there.

00:25:15.524 --> 00:25:19.624
But if they both have that hidden interest and they bring it to the light,

00:25:19.784 --> 00:25:23.084
that's when it goes really fast. and they end up in those affairs.

00:25:23.604 --> 00:25:29.444
Yeah, yeah. How long do you normally see a couple about, you know,

00:25:29.584 --> 00:25:33.124
getting back together again or getting back to the sexual thing?

00:25:33.384 --> 00:25:39.144
How long do you sort of spend with them, firstly as a daily or,

00:25:39.324 --> 00:25:44.764
sorry, an episode one, and the actual returns, how is it once a week or once

00:25:44.764 --> 00:25:46.444
a fortnight or for 12 months?

00:25:47.344 --> 00:25:52.224
How do you sort of spread that out? or how long does it take to sort of convince them?

00:25:52.484 --> 00:25:57.744
Well, I will say the most common time frame is about a year that I spend with a couple.

00:25:58.064 --> 00:26:02.044
It always depends on the problem they bring in. So if it's infidelity,

00:26:02.044 --> 00:26:03.584
it could be a year or two years.

00:26:03.844 --> 00:26:08.864
If it's sex related, it depends on how severe the sex problem is and how much

00:26:08.864 --> 00:26:12.164
baggage they're each bringing in to the sex problem.

00:26:12.384 --> 00:26:17.524
So sex problems could be three to six months and the infidelity is always a

00:26:17.524 --> 00:26:22.524
year to two years because it just takes a while to work through the pain of that trauma.

00:26:23.164 --> 00:26:28.484
Initially, in crisis, people are seeing me either weekly or every other week.

00:26:28.604 --> 00:26:31.904
And I give homework assignments to work on in between sessions.

00:26:32.144 --> 00:26:36.424
But then after about three-ish months, they'll usually start telling me,

00:26:36.484 --> 00:26:38.844
I think we're ready to go every three weeks or every four weeks.

00:26:38.964 --> 00:26:41.204
So it'll slowly taper off.

00:26:41.344 --> 00:26:46.764
And then when people like in the infidelity caseload are towards a year.

00:26:46.864 --> 00:26:49.464
It tends to be about once a month and then it gets to,

00:26:49.968 --> 00:26:54.428
quarterly, so like every three months. But most of my infidelity cases will

00:26:54.428 --> 00:26:56.448
stay with me for quite some time

00:26:56.448 --> 00:26:59.828
just because they want like some accountability to make sure it keeps up.

00:27:00.168 --> 00:27:04.068
My sex therapy cases will typically have an end, but then they will come back

00:27:04.068 --> 00:27:07.948
up for revamps every now and then like, hey, you know, we just want to make

00:27:07.948 --> 00:27:09.588
sure we're on the same page, you know.

00:27:09.988 --> 00:27:15.108
But usually with sex therapy, I really try to teach people the ingredients to

00:27:15.108 --> 00:27:16.948
keep up a strong sex life, right?

00:27:17.068 --> 00:27:21.388
Like, it's not just about fixing this one problem, but it's developing the communication

00:27:21.388 --> 00:27:25.388
styles, learning how to be intentional with desire and eroticism,

00:27:25.528 --> 00:27:31.588
and learning how to get into that headspace with each other so that they know how to do it.

00:27:31.648 --> 00:27:36.088
I want them to learn their bodies and their hearts that well that they don't

00:27:36.088 --> 00:27:40.468
really need me anymore, or they at least know, oh, these are the things that helped me get there.

00:27:40.568 --> 00:27:43.348
And so I will say for sex, a lot of them, you

00:27:43.348 --> 00:27:46.508
know once they figured out some of those baseline qualities

00:27:46.508 --> 00:27:49.928
then they do a pretty good job of keeping it up because i'm

00:27:49.928 --> 00:27:52.868
not just training you for your problem but i i'm training

00:27:52.868 --> 00:27:55.908
you for any sexual health problem that

00:27:55.908 --> 00:27:58.928
comes up in the future because really like sexual problems are

00:27:58.928 --> 00:28:02.368
a part of life like that's not it's not abnormal but because

00:28:02.368 --> 00:28:05.328
people are so we're so weird about

00:28:05.328 --> 00:28:08.308
sex in our society that people struggle to talk about

00:28:08.308 --> 00:28:11.388
it so once i get them having healthy conversations about

00:28:11.388 --> 00:28:14.168
okay we're dealing with some sexual problems how do we brainstorm and

00:28:14.168 --> 00:28:17.248
work through this as a team then they they

00:28:17.248 --> 00:28:20.248
take those same tools and then the next sexual problem they

00:28:20.248 --> 00:28:25.768
learn better ways to work with the problem they have what is your success rate

00:28:25.768 --> 00:28:31.168
so i would say if they are in that best friend category i have a very high success

00:28:31.168 --> 00:28:35.668
rate right so you're i would put it at 80 or 90 success if people come with

00:28:35.668 --> 00:28:38.408
some good emotional intelligence and.

00:28:38.670 --> 00:28:43.610
When people come to me with severe resentment seven years after the problem

00:28:43.610 --> 00:28:45.990
started and they're barely functioning.

00:28:46.370 --> 00:28:49.790
So essentially, this isn't a nice thing to say, but if you present me with a

00:28:49.790 --> 00:28:53.630
lemon, like a car that's a lemon, that's an expression for a car that's going

00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:56.210
to fall apart, I'm not going to be successful with that.

00:28:56.290 --> 00:29:00.970
You're on death's door, you're about to divorce, and you're just trying to come

00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:03.790
see if my one last hurrah will help you.

00:29:03.790 --> 00:29:08.710
So for those couples, no, they end up divorcing or they'll work with me for

00:29:08.710 --> 00:29:12.610
a while, but then I'll hear from them three or four years later and they'll

00:29:12.610 --> 00:29:14.850
say, oh yeah, we divorced. But it wasn't you, Angela.

00:29:15.950 --> 00:29:19.910
We needed, like, they're really sweet about that. They will say it wasn't you.

00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:23.730
I've had a few of these couples because, you know, I'm around here and I hang,

00:29:23.870 --> 00:29:29.050
they're in this neighborhood or like, you know, St. Louis is a, it's a small big town.

00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:31.970
There's a lot of people here, but you can be in similar circles.

00:29:31.970 --> 00:29:36.670
So I have seen plenty of my couples about two or three years later who basically

00:29:36.670 --> 00:29:39.750
say, yeah, you know, we did end up divorcing, but, you know,

00:29:39.810 --> 00:29:42.410
it wasn't because of what you did. It's because we needed to.

00:29:42.590 --> 00:29:45.570
And so and I usually I'm not saying I'm perfect at predicting,

00:29:45.570 --> 00:29:49.630
but like I can usually tell which couples are likely headed that path.

00:29:49.790 --> 00:29:53.790
But it's not my job to tell people to divorce. It's my job to help them as long

00:29:53.790 --> 00:29:55.550
as they're asking for it. Yeah, yeah.

00:29:57.950 --> 00:30:05.210
Actually i was giggling that it wasn't your fault really nice,

00:30:06.350 --> 00:30:09.690
give us a review yeah i'm

00:30:09.690 --> 00:30:12.610
like yeah you should like we did divorce but it wasn't her fault

00:30:12.610 --> 00:30:16.630
we just i don't know if that's a review i want but like that's what's complicated

00:30:16.630 --> 00:30:20.430
about like what are your outcomes right because it depends on what they've done

00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:24.090
to each other like for example that chronic cheater like how am i supposed to

00:30:24.090 --> 00:30:27.230
have a good outcome with somebody who just keeps hurting their partner and really

00:30:27.230 --> 00:30:31.790
probably never plans to stop you know that's how complicated outcomes can be,

00:30:33.368 --> 00:30:39.688
Well, actually, it's been good to talk to you. Thank you very much for talking to me.

00:30:39.888 --> 00:30:43.188
I thought that was very, very interesting and very well put by you.

00:30:43.628 --> 00:30:46.768
It's very good. So thank you very much.

00:30:46.928 --> 00:30:49.948
I appreciate your time, and it's

00:30:49.948 --> 00:30:54.868
very nice to meet you, and it's very informative. I can guarantee that.

00:30:55.168 --> 00:30:59.588
Yeah, it was great. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

00:30:59.868 --> 00:31:05.368
It's my pleasure. And if I ever need a therapist, I'll try and get all the way over there.

00:31:07.348 --> 00:31:11.948
If they buy my books, that counts. Yeah, give them another plug.

00:31:12.228 --> 00:31:17.388
One of the names of the books. Oh, so I have three books, from FNO to FESsex,

00:31:17.508 --> 00:31:18.648
and you can get it on Amazon.

00:31:19.268 --> 00:31:23.248
And I have Helping Couples Overcome Infidelity, a therapist manual,

00:31:23.628 --> 00:31:26.568
and Premarital Counseling, a guide for clinicians.

00:31:26.568 --> 00:31:29.368
And while those other two books do talk about being

00:31:29.368 --> 00:31:32.188
a clinical like clinician they are written

00:31:32.188 --> 00:31:35.308
for both clients and clinicians so i've had clients read

00:31:35.308 --> 00:31:39.048
them it's very easy to read i am teaching therapists how to do the work but

00:31:39.048 --> 00:31:44.788
i i write in a very easy tangible way so people can like take it in and do something

00:31:44.788 --> 00:31:48.248
with it so i still will have my clients read my books when they're going through

00:31:48.248 --> 00:31:51.988
the different issues they're working on terrific thank you very much i hope

00:31:51.988 --> 00:31:54.748
But the books go like you catch fire and keep going.

00:31:55.068 --> 00:31:58.208
Thank you so much. I'll send you the links. That would be terrific.

00:31:58.888 --> 00:32:03.888
Thanks again. And have a great day. Oh, your day's finishing, so.

00:32:04.368 --> 00:32:08.668
It is, yeah. Have a great morning. Thank you. Enjoy the evening.

00:32:09.648 --> 00:32:16.028
All right. Bye. Thank you for listening to Why Is It So? Make sure you tune in to our next episode.

00:32:16.248 --> 00:32:19.508
Remember, it's your last defence for common sense.