"Honouring Heroes: The True Meaning of Anzac Day"

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Welcome to Why Is It So? Your last defence for common sense with your co-hosts

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Paul Zammett and Vince Locizzano.

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Music.

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Good morning. and welcome to Why Is It So?

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My name is Paul and today Vince and I are having a chat about Anzac Day and what it all means.

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On the 25th of April every year we commemorate the landing of the Australian

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and New Zealand Army Corps at Gallipoli in Kirky during World War I 1915.

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Nowadays, of course, Anzac Day honours all Australians and New Zealanders who

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serve and died in all wars, conflicts and peacemaking operations.

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So, Vince, what do you think?

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Look, I think Anzac Day is a very, very special day that really gives everyone in our country.

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And I guess our cousins, if you like, the New Zealanders, it really gives all of us a common cause,

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I guess a sense of togetherness in being able to commemorate the lives of all

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of those people who made the ultimate sacrifice and who also served our country

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in order to keep it free and in order to give us the liberties that we enjoy today.

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And anyone who tries to downgrade the significance of this day or even worse,

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to trash it like it's some sort of celebration of war or celebration of killing

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people or anything like that, to me, it's very sad that people feel that way.

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I'd like to think that they are in the vast, vast minority because I think the

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vast majority of Australians and New Zealanders look at this day in the way that they should.

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And it really is a day of respect.

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Yeah, and really these people should really have a good hard look at themselves

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because if it wasn't for the people that went and died and surrendered their

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life for us, they wouldn't be able to do this. Yeah.

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They may, today may have been part of China, could have been part of Soviet

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Union, could have been anywhere.

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Yeah. But because these people died for us, you'd think that they'd have a bit more respect for it.

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Yeah, I think so. So it's very sad that some people try to, you know,

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turn it into some sort of day of disgrace.

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It's actually a day that regardless of your views on war and why we go to war

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or whether we should or shouldn't go to certain wars,

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it is purely there to commemorate the lives of those people who have had the

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guts to go out there and serve the country without any guarantee of coming back.

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And in a lot of cases, they didn't. They made the ultimate sacrifice.

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And when you think, you know, they traveled all the way across the other side

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of the world to do this too.

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Young kids that were 15, lied about their ages to go to war.

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It was something that they wanted to go to and do their bit, if you like.

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Now, the original landing site at ANZAC Co. is where the Australians made the ultimate sacrifice.

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That was only one part of the equation. but this one is the one that they probably

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lost the most people on in one spot.

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Have you ever been to Turkey, to Gugli? No, no, I haven't.

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No, neither have I, but in talking with a few people I know who have been there,

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it's a really amazing place, and the people I know went there specifically for Anzac Day,

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and they reckon that the experience is something that will never leave them, that they'll...

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Hold those feelings close to their hearts about what it felt like to be there.

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And it's a pretty eerie feeling, according to the people I know.

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Yeah, well, the area is now preserved in Turkey there on Anzac Cove as a memorial site,

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you know, with the cemeteries and the monuments and things that they have and

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the celebrations that they have there every year on the 25th of April.

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So, yeah. And by the way, just on Gallipoli, If you haven't watched the movie,

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I would suggest to anyone who hasn't actually seen the movie Gallipoli to get it.

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I think it was made back in the 1980s.

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It might have been the early 1980s. But it really is worth having a look at that.

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That really tells you everything that happened back in Gallipoli in World War I. Yeah.

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Great Australian movie. Yeah. Well, one of the most significant war memorials

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in the country here is in New South Wales, and sorry, in Canberra. Yes, the ACT.

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Yeah, and it houses the Royal of Honour, the Hall of Memory,

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and the extensive military exhibits it's got there.

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And the Anzac Day Dawn Service in Canberra is probably one of the biggest in the country.

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And they do that all around Australia, of course. Yeah, of course,

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and we have our Shrine of Remembrance here in Melbourne as well,

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which was built in 1934. It's approaching 100 years ago. to honour the Victorians

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who served in World War I.

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It now commemorates all Australians who have served in war and is a major site

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for Anzac Day dawn services here in Victoria. But there are,

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of course, dozens and dozens, and in fact, hundreds across the country.

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There's even one in Torquay that me and my partner went to last year,

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which is a lovely spot there in Torquay, which holds a terrific Anzac Day dawn service.

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So, no doubt these services are held in all sorts of places around the country. Yeah.

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I noticed that we were talking about before the Anzac Bridge in New South Wales.

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Do you know where that is exactly?

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No, I don't. Apparently, it's a symbolic structure. It's named for the Anzac soldiers, obviously.

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And it features large bronze statues of Anzac soldiers throughout the area.

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Okay. And I was just wondering where it was. I'm not quite sure.

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I'll have to look that up later on.

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Well, as I said, there's lots of structures that have been, I guess,

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constructed throughout the years to honour Anzacs on Anzac Day,

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and of course, Paul, we...

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We have the annual Anzac Day football match here in Melbourne at the MCG between

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Collingwood and Essendon, and that's been going now for 30 years.

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It'll be the 30th anniversary this year. Actually, it was Sheedy's idea,

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wasn't it? It was essentially a brainchild of Kevin Sheedy, and it's stood the

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test of time, and I dare say it will continue infinitum now.

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I can't see any reason why it would stop. It's been so successful.

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It is amazing. It's growing in stature every year, really.

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I mean, I don't know if you've been to an Anzac Day game. I have had the privilege

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of being to a couple of them.

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And when they play the last post and they do that Anzac Day service before the

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game, and then we have that minute silence, it's just an amazing feeling to

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be in the MCG, 100,000 people,

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and you could literally hear a pin drop. Yeah, it's fantastic.

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Unbelievable feeling. It's actually quieter than it is in church.

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To me, it is a more special feeling than whatever feeling you get on a grand

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final day, for example. Yeah.

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You know, with all the grand final pre-entertainment and all that sort of stuff,

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and then the teams run out onto the ground and all that. Yeah, that's all a bit of hype.

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But this is far more special. It's a really unique moment when we have that

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Anzac Day service on the MCG on that particular day.

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It's just something that I don't think could be replicated by any other event,

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certainly not in football. It reaches further too.

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It sort of resonates with people. They understand it. I was going to say,

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they don't like the football.

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They still know and want to think about Anzac Day, which is terrific.

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Well, as we know, 8,709 Australians died at Gallipoli, and, of course,

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over 60,000 Australians died in World War I.

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Over 100,000 names are now inscribed on the Roll of Honour at the Australian

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War Memorial in Canberra.

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Yeah, I haven't been there for a...

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Been to Canberra, but never went there. Yeah. It's unbelievable.

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I only went to Canberra once, and I was about seven or eight years old,

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so I wouldn't know what I was looking at.

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But there are some notable Anzac heroes that we should mention as well, shouldn't we?

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Probably the most famous of them all, being the first Australian to be awarded

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the Victoria Cross during World War I at Gallipoli in 1915.

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And, of course, that's Albert Jacker, VC, known for his extreme bravery under fire.

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He took all before him and was one of the big heroes, if you like,

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of our Army Corps back in World War I.

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When you think about it too, just on a side step, there were a lot of other

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Indigenous young guys that went over there.

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There was no... Oh, a lot of them were just in their teens and maybe even early

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20s, just young guys with their whole lives, supposed to be ahead of them,

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but many of them didn't come back.

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Yeah, well, unfortunately, that's just true, yeah.

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And, of course, you remember Simpson and his donkey, of course.

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That's a famous one, isn't it? Isn't it? John Simpson Kirkpatrick. Yeah.

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More commonly known as Simpson or Simmo and his donkey. Yeah,

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but the funny part about him, I heard, I might be wrong, but actually he invented

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the furphy, if you like, because the furphy was sort of not quite the truth.

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So he used to tell them little furfies. Okay. And everything.

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So he used to tell a few yarns and make them string out a bit more than what I meant to be. Yeah.

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And then he became a legend at Gallipoli, of course, rescuing wounded soldiers,

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using a donkey, for God's sake.

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They didn't have bulletproof vests in those days. He must have been a little old donkey.

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He was killed in action. Maybe that's the only thing he could use because all

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the horses said, da-da, not for me.

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Probably. Yeah, he was killed in action and became a symbol of softness and courage.

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Yes. He really went, well, he would have to have courage, wouldn't he?

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Pulling a donkey along and trying to get people off the middle of,

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there's people shooting at you from all angles, and he's out there picking up

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a person who's obviously and putting him on a donkey.

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I honestly don't believe that anyone in today's day and age has any concept

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of what it would have been like back then.

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I think we are so sheltered from danger now and we live such a privileged life in this country.

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We don't really experience any sort of conflicts, anything that would even resemble

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war within Australia at or with, or, or, you know, with our borders.

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We're very, very fortunate in that sense. But, yeah, I think a lot of these

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soldiers went to places around the world that, yeah, were very much part of wars for centuries.

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Yes, yeah. But anyway, Edward Wierry Dunlop is another name that comes to mind. Yes, yeah.

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Served in World War II as a surgeon and a leader in Japanese prisoner of war

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camps, known for his compassion, strength, and leadership while treating sick and injured prisoners.

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So that's a very well-known name in Australia, Weary Dunlop.

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If a bullet doesn't get you, some disease will probably get you the way he was doing it out there.

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Well, of course, Anzac Day also reminds us not only of Gallipoli but of sacrifices

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that were made in World War II,

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the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and in more recent times in Afghanistan and

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other peacekeeping missions around the world.

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Well, as we know, Paul, we do commemorate Anzac Day at dawn with the dawn services that we hold.

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And if you're ever wondering why it's held at dawn is because this reflects

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the time of the original Gallipoli landing in 1915. The soldiers all turned

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up there on Anzac Cove at dawn. And so that's the reason for that.

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And of course, the last post, which is the name of that bugle call played at

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commemorations, which we heard at the start of our podcast, is played in order

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to honor the fallen soldiers.

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And of course, after that, we have a minute's silence, which is observed to

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remember and reflect upon those who we lost at war.

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Anzac Day marches, of course, are also held throughout the day.

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Veterans and current service members walk in honour of the fallen.

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And you'll notice that people are wearing rosemary and poppies,

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or one or the other, depending on what their preferences are.

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Rosemary is actually for remembrance.

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And the significance of red poppies is to symbolise blood shed in war.

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So if you're wondering why people wear the poppies, that's the reason for that.

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You know, with the marches and things or whatever have you, it's amazing and

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it's very sort of, I don't know, it's fantastic that the young people now are

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out there with their grandparents,

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with them or if they're parents. Even great-grandparents.

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They have the medallions belonging to their grandfathers or great-grandfathers

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and they wear them with pride walking along with the march.

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It's just fantastic. with these young people now engrossed in it now.

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And we'll keep this going forever, I think, the way it goes,

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because there's this young generation now who really started to understand what it was like.

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Yeah, exactly right. No, it's a very special day.

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And again, it must bring back so many harsh memories for those who are still

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alive that remember back to the wars that they served in.

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And of course, we don't have any surviving soldiers or personnel who served in World War I anymore.

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It's just way too long ago. But we still have people who have served at World

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War II and all of the other wars since then, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, etc.

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So it must be a pretty painful experience for them to remember back to the days

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where they served and especially if there was conflict involved.

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But I guess I'd like to think that we will continue to celebrate Anzac Day for

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all the right reasons and that people can see fit to continue this tradition.

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I think it's a very special day where we commemorate the lives of the people

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who made the ultimate sacrifice and allowed us to live in a country that's free,

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where we can enjoy the liberties and freedoms that we do today.

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And I really believe that people who don't view Anzac Day with that lens are

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not looking at it in the right way.

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People who try to trash it or talk it down, in my opinion, need to have a good

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hard look at themselves and look at the real reasons why we have such a day. Absolutely.

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And, of course, Anzac Day reminds us not only of Gallipoli, right,

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but of sacrifices in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and.

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Many peacekeeping missions that we've been overseas with, and it goes on.

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Well, as I said, it's not about glorifying war. It's about honouring peace,

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service, and sacrifice.

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It's about the mates who never came home, and the ones who did will be forever

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changed for the experience.

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When you think about it, the 60,000 Australians that died in World War I is almost unbelievable.

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When you think in 1915, the total population of Australia was only just under 5 million people.

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So, that's a hell of a lot of people to lose when you've only got 5 million.

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Well, it depends on how far back you want to go.

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Yeah, but there wasn't anyone really, the country wasn't anywhere near what it is today. No.

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I mean, when you think of it. It's a big percentage of your population to lose

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60,000 people. Oh, unbelievable.

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I couldn't believe there's that many people here to go.

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So, yeah, I'd like to think that there would be that many people that would

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go to war now if we needed to, but sometimes I doubt it.

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We are a selfish sort of country now. I think we're getting to the stage where

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it's me and it's all about me.

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It's not like it used to be before, I don't think. Yeah.

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Well, I just find it sad that in some places within the country or in some quarters, if you like,

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that there seems to be an appetite for trying to influence young minds to be ashamed of our country.

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And when you look at the history of Australia,

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A lot of people try to shame us into thinking that we have a history that ought

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to be condemned, that we have a history that is something to be ashamed of.

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And I find that really disturbing and troubling, that more and more people are pushing this line.

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I guess this especially comes out on Australia Day, when people in some places

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protesting Australia Day and calling it a day of invasion and all this sort of thing.

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Anzac Day, in a similar way, in some places, is being trashed as some sort of glorification of war.

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I don't think that that's what it's about at all. And if you listen to anyone

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who's got half a brain, they will tell you it's not about glorifying war.

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It's about remembering and commemorating those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

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Anzac Day isn't just history. It's heritage.

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It's a torch passed down from generation to generation and one that says to

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those who served, we remember you, we honour you, and we will not forget.

00:19:43.317 --> 00:19:45.497
Lest we forget. Correct.

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On that note, we'll say thank you for being with us and listening to our podcast.

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And we hope you enjoyed it and got some interesting information.

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Thank you to Vince for being with us and having a chat.

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And we'll see you again shortly in the near future, Vince.

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And to our listeners, have a good day and we'll see you soon.

00:20:09.177 --> 00:20:14.077
Thank you for listening to Why Is It So? Make sure you tune in to our next episode.

00:20:14.297 --> 00:20:17.557
Remember, it's your last offence for common sense.