Who Killed JFK Americas 35th President

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Welcome to Why Is It So. I'm Paul, and today I have a guest with me to discuss

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what happened 65 years ago.

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In 1963, John F. Kennedy was assassinated.

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There have been a number of assassinations in the US, and even more attempts.

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But the Kennedy one still stands out more than any other.

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My guest is a man by the name of Jack Moore, who has been fascinated with the

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Kennedy assassination for over 40 years.

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And now that the Warren Commission report, which has been archived for 60 years,

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has been released to the public, he has read most of what has been released.

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Not all of the reports, some sections remained in lockup.

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Jack Moore is a retired professor at college level who has been to Dealey Plaza

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in Texas, the scene of the assassination, uncountable times over the years.

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But not only that, he did his thesis on the subject.

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You can find him on podcasts as Moore to Consider, website by the same name,

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and on YouTube and ex-social media.

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He certainly has the qualifications to tell us who killed John F.K.

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So let me introduce you to Jack now. Good morning, Jack. Thank you for giving us your time.

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Yes, sir. And we're back here to see you. You're going to tell us a story about who really killed JFK.

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I believe you're quite an expert at it. You've been working on it pretty hard for a long time.

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Yes, I grew up in Virginia, and I was a year and a half when it happened. I was born in 1962.

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So my earliest memories of having

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any concern about it or interest was my mother voted for Nixon in 1960.

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And she read a lot of history. My dad, I wouldn't say was so much into politics,

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but he was into history as well.

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But my mother cut out all the newspaper clippings and she bought all the books

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that came out during the assassination.

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So as a kid, I'm looking through all this i mean five six years old i'm into

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this and as the years went on i pretty much as a teenager in high school.

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Influenced by Mark Lane, and most of the assassination limits to that were conspiracy

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oriented, believed it was clearly a conspiracy.

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I bought that the single bullet theory didn't make sense because it was that same mantra always.

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Bullets don't do that. Bullets don't pass through human beings.

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And as the years went on, and I

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started with help that brought out what

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a lot of the conspiracy people left out but

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the one citizen may have gotten correct i was

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convinced that's a period of time that it's

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more likely that oswald did do the shooting it was a single shooter a big part

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of that for me was the first time i went to dealy plaza i was 28 1990 and i

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go down there and i remember coming down houston and boom there's there's elm

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street and there's School Book Depository,

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and I see it. So I go into the parking area.

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They had just opened the sixth floor museum there, and I got a chance to go onto the sixth floor.

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So if anybody doesn't know this, the Texas School Book Depository was a building

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that originally burned in 19... I'm sorry, I think it was 1899,

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and then in 1903, they rebuilt the building on that site.

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It was a seven-story building, and it was the school book depository.

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So some of the publishers of school books were in-house at this facility,

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and many of the books just came in, and they were shipped out to Texas schools.

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So it was a warehouse-slash-type-of-business-type-of-building.

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So after the assassination, it remained the Texas school book depository for a few years.

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Then it kind of fell on hard times as a building

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and there was a movement to take it

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down in dallas and a lot of people just wanted to erase

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the memory of the assassination a group of people came in and said from the

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doubt from the dallas historical society you can't get rid of this building

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it's too much historical impact so the agreement that we came they came up with

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was They would put a museum on the sixth floor and also have control of the seventh floor.

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And the bottom five floors, as sort of a trade-off with the city of Dallas and

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the county of Dallas, was to use that for government office space.

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So if you entered the old entrance on Elm Street, the main entrance on Elm Street,

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you would go into the city control part of it.

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And what they did was put a bookstore and a reception area, basically.

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On the back side of what was the original back side of the building.

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Then they constructed an elevator on the back side of the building.

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So when you came in and got your ticket, you could move around there in the

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bookstore if you wanted to.

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But when you bought your ticket and you were in another group going up.

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You were basically going into an elevator and riding on what originally was

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where the building stood.

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You're riding up the backside of the building and in through what would have

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been a back window to the sixth floor on the backside of the building. All right.

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And then you, you entered there and that's where you entered and came into the

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sixth floor museum. So I go up there for the first time.

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My dad passed away four years ago, age of 92. He was military law enforcement.

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He had 2010 eyesight. He had been quite the marksman with the .45,

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the 1911 .45 caliber pistol that was an Army issue.

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Well, really it's a military grade or military issue weapon for officers.

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He fired that one. He fired every type of rifle that he had in his era as well.

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He was drafted during Korea.

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So we grew up on the sixth floor together. and for

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my I mean the impact of this for me for the first time I'm

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not a marksman I have great eyesight or at least I did but

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I you know I wasn't a marksman I've handled some firearms

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but not many and not at any type of level but I'm in the window and I'm like

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man that's the shot because as I watch cars enter Elm Street and move towards

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the triple underpass I felt like I could have thrown a rock and killed it so

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there was a there was a lot of distortion I had a Marine on months ago sweet guy, nice guy.

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And he was talking about how it was impossible to pull off the shooting.

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And I said, well, sir, what do you think was the distance at the headshot?

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He goes, oh, I don't know, 150, 200 yards.

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Like, no, it was 88 yards at the headshot. It was 51 at the body shot.

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If you agree with or by the single bullet theory, the distance was 150 odd feet.

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He goes, are you kidding? And I'm like, no.

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So it's 51 yards at the body shot and 88 yards at the head shots.

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So when I was in that window, so I looked at my dad and I said,

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given your military background training.

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What do you think he goes that guy's pretty subtle shot that that's

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not anything any really you know and

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it is a bolt action rifle we can get into the timing because there's

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a lot of that too yeah but at that point in my

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late 20s into the time i wrote my thesis which i completed at the age of 31

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i was more and more convinced that oswald did it but as i wrote in my thesis

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one of my thesis advisors is still alive he's 100 years old he's a world war

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ii veteran william whitehurst Loved the man.

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He was 18 years in Congress, and he was at Old Dominion University in Norfolk,

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Virginia, where I finished.

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And he was like establishment guy. And he said, you know, Jack,

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I really love where your thesis was going, but man, you hit it to your bets at the end.

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You didn't seem to really follow through on Oswald.

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And I said, yeah, because I'm not sure he didn't do it for someone else.

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I'm not sure he wasn't government dirty, some type of agency dirty,

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sylvia dirty something doesn't seem

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right about how he entered in this position

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but i do believe he did it oswald wasn't really a sharp shooting type by the

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look of him he didn't look like a a sharp shooter he sort of looked like a guy

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just off the well here's a here's a problem with a lot of that i work in professional

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baseball a lot i work with a lot of baseball players.

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And in doing that i'm using this analogy or

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this comparison a lot of people have played

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baseball so they can go to a game at a major

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league or triple a level or professional level and they see a fly

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ball get caught like hell i did that with a leg and i did this and all and they

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look at people throwing an average major league fastball now and the majors

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is picked up to about 94 miles per hour if i set you at the plate and you saw

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that you'd go like whoa i i I have no idea it looked like that up here.

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My point is the number of people who can throw a baseball 90 miles per hour.

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If I put my fingers from here to here on the screen, it's that many can do that, can do that.

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So, and by the same token, Oswald fired for qualification twice in the Marine Corps.

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So expert is top. And then it's marksman and sharpshooter. He qualified the

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first time as a marksman.

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He missed expert. And the last time when he's on his way out and doesn't particularly

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care, he scores a 191, which puts him in the lowest grade of qualification.

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But he qualifies with a 212 and later a 191.

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There was a sergeant in the Marine Corps who was a sergeant in charge of training

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of marksmen on the ranges.

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But in front of the warning commission, like, sir, what does that mean?

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And he goes, that means kind of the same analogy. He may not be the hardest

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thrower in the major leagues, but he's a major leaguer.

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He's a guy who is trained to the degree that he qualifies as a Marine on the

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range, firing from 200 to 400 to 600 yards.

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They're hitting targets up to 600 yards. So while he may not have been the best

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Marine, if I take a guy off the street that doesn't have his training,

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he's much better than that guy. Yeah.

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So he gets poo-pooed a lot. I mean, a lot of people that take shots now,

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hey, wasn't that great a marksman as a Marine?

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Well, that's not what the score indicated. The score indicated he was at least

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an average marksman in the Marine Corps.

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Yeah. And so you're hitting targets at great distances within,

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you know, eight to 10 inches hitting targets at that kind of range.

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And then the headshot was 88 yards, well within that distance.

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And let me say something else about that.

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Until you're in Dealey Plaza, you don't realize how small it is.

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The number one thing everyone's saying, like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize it's

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this tiny little area that makes up Dealey Plaza.

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Down the street, Main Street, Commerce, and all the area leading down to the triple underpass.

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The other thing about when you get in that window, you recognize when you stand

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up on Houston Street and look at the triple underpass, it looks almost level to you.

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If you look at the railroad bridge above the highway, it looks almost to level

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because the street goes down at a three-degree declination. It declines at three degrees.

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So when you get in the window and you watch cars get into the center lane,

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going out of Dealey Plaza on Elm into the triple underpass.

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If you were trying to train a rifle on a target within that vehicle,

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you can imagine if the vehicle went away from you on level ground,

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you would have to be training the rifle as it went away from you.

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You'd have to be pulling the rifle up with it.

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But if a car goes out away from you and down, it seems to level, almost becomes still.

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So when I was in that window and I was watching cars get into that lane and

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move away, they seem to sit standing. They are almost standing still.

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So now he also had a four power scope, 88 yards through a four power scope becomes 22 yards.

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If you stand 22 yards from something, you're like, I don't see how I could possibly miss that target.

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Now, whether he, whether he used the scope or the iron sights, we'll never know.

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But i think it was achievable through the

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iron sights alone but clearly the

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scope would have aided now the scope was misaligned

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upon discovery and i was teaching a college class several years ago and i had

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a lot of kids in there that would hunt and i asked them if you dropped a rifle

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with a scope on it would that misalign the scope and they're like almost certainly

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so when on Wall's leaving the shooting scene,

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he throws or places or somehow puts the rifles in between boxes.

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I think in this case, to get out there, it is very likely that he dropped it

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in between the boxes. If he did, when it was discovered, the scope very well

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could have been misaligned.

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Do I know with certainty that it was aligned at the time of the shooting? No, I don't.

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Do I know that it was misaligned when he tossed the rifle? No, I don't.

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But I think it's a reasonable explanation because many people looked at the

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rifle and said, oh, the scope is misaligned. How can he possibly have pulled off the shooting?

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I don't know that that's not a reasonable explanation. There's haste to get

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out of there. He didn't toss the rifle on the way out. But who knows? Yeah.

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You sound like you're sort of a believer that Oswald actually was the shooter.

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Absolutely. Weren't there three shots fired? It was reported.

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There were fired, you know, two others. Now, where was that? Listen, listen.

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Well, I'll tell you something else, too. In teaching the class, I made this point.

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And I run it out there in front of a lot of people. but it's not for shock value

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and I'm no tough guy at all. And I'll explain that in this.

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I'll ask a lot of my students when I teach, have you ever witnessed a shooting?

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And I'll get one in 50 that maybe has witnessed an actual shooting.

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It happened to me one night in Richmond, Virginia. I was waiting on a young

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lady to come to a movie theater.

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She worked in a place. I was leaving a place. I said, Hey, I'll meet you to

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the theater, get a ticket. We'll go watch a movie.

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So I'm standing out. There's eight glass doors, four double doors of glass in

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the front of this building.

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And it's like eight theater or eight screens in this theater house.

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And I'm standing out front waiting for her. And I hear pop.

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And I'm like, that's a pistol. I know that's a pistol shot. It's coming from the lobby.

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So I turned to the right and this kid runs right by me.

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And I went, huh, son of a gun. There goes a kid running by. And then as I trained

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my eyes on him, leaving to my left, from right to left, I heard pop.

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And I went, wow, now I know why the kid's running. Because the kid behind him

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has a gun and he's firing at it.

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Now this passed by me and I will swear, in all likelihood, he didn't even see

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me. He passed by me four feet tops.

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And he ended up in the parking lot. Next thing I know, 10 police cars,

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blue lights are going, sirens are wailing, and they catch the kid at the end of the lot.

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So I stand there for a minute thinking, maybe the cops are going to come up

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and ask me what I saw. But I would make this point to the student.

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If you ask me to this day, I still have a vivid memory of parts of it.

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How many shots were fired? I'm like, at least two.

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The one in the lobby and the one outside. Did he fire a third shot? I don't know. Maybe.

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Could I have picked a shooter out of a lineup? Hell no. Could I have picked a guy running? No.

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I just know they were both young. Turned out it was a 16-year-old kid that came

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to the theater and thought the other kid was with his girlfriend.

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He brought a gun. That's what happened.

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But if you had told me what were the sequence of shots, no idea.

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And if people are honest with themselves, they have no idea what the timing sequence is.

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They rarely, really know where the shots are coming from.

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They're in a state of confusion. Now, you think of 1963.

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Other than Oswald, probably no one else, or maybe someone else,

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we'll never know, was there that knew the shooting was going to start.

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So Yellow Pop, the vast majority of witnesses said they thought it was a firecracker.

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Then when Kennedy began to show distress or his head explode,

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they're like, oh shit, that's a shooting. And they didn't know at first what it was.

00:16:36.886 --> 00:16:41.246
But for people to come back, and I've listened to some of their accounts,

00:16:41.506 --> 00:16:45.766
it's anywhere from five to 20 seconds to three seconds.

00:16:46.146 --> 00:16:50.246
They don't know. But people with military training, it was interesting.

00:16:50.246 --> 00:16:52.206
There was a lot, but it's 1963.

00:16:52.746 --> 00:16:57.186
The vast majority of, I would say the majority of men had served in World War

00:16:57.186 --> 00:17:00.066
II Korea or were on their way to Vietnam at the time.

00:17:00.446 --> 00:17:03.866
So most every young man at that point had military training.

00:17:04.026 --> 00:17:07.766
So they had some training of listening to weapons, knowing where weapons were

00:17:07.766 --> 00:17:09.246
coming from, that type of thing.

00:17:09.646 --> 00:17:14.026
And the people that I would put the most stock in, now you could say they were

00:17:14.026 --> 00:17:20.546
government stooges, But the guy in the limousine behind Kennedy that was driving

00:17:20.546 --> 00:17:24.346
Johnson and Senator Ralph Yalberl behind Kennedy,

00:17:24.506 --> 00:17:29.666
he was on a 60-minute CBS or CBS reports in the late 60s.

00:17:29.766 --> 00:17:32.106
I mean, the video's on YouTube. You can watch it.

00:17:32.286 --> 00:17:37.386
And Dan Rather said, you were in an open limousine when the shooting started.

00:17:37.466 --> 00:17:42.466
What do you remember? And he said, well, given the fact I am a combat veteran,

00:17:42.706 --> 00:17:48.266
I heard a report above my right shoulder behind me, meaning the school book depository.

00:17:48.466 --> 00:17:51.266
And then rather said, what followed?

00:17:51.486 --> 00:17:54.826
Two other shots, sir. So you know that it was three. Yes, sir.

00:17:54.946 --> 00:17:57.646
I've been kind of trained to detect gunfire.

00:17:57.846 --> 00:18:01.246
So many people with certain levels of training heard three shots.

00:18:01.751 --> 00:18:05.331
There were witnesses that heard four, five, some thought Brassie Knoll,

00:18:05.431 --> 00:18:08.111
some thought School Book Depository. I get all that.

00:18:08.451 --> 00:18:13.271
But again, unless the government's lying, and I can't say with certainty it's

00:18:13.271 --> 00:18:19.911
not, there were bullet fragments that were taken from the inside of the limousine from the headshot.

00:18:20.331 --> 00:18:26.511
Fragments that were found, it was the jacket of a metal jacket and 6.5 millimeter

00:18:26.511 --> 00:18:32.371
round that was fired to the exclusion of all other weapons by Oddwall's rifle

00:18:32.371 --> 00:18:36.331
found in the vehicle that had shattered Kennedy's head.

00:18:36.771 --> 00:18:40.591
Now, I don't know, maybe that was a proclamant, but I don't think it was.

00:18:40.591 --> 00:18:46.431
And if that's true, then you have to account for how did Carcano rifle bullet

00:18:46.431 --> 00:18:54.071
end up in the vehicle in a fragmented fashion that would fit the assassination or Kennedy's wound.

00:18:54.071 --> 00:18:58.571
Yeah, that means that the guy in the limo behind him, Kennedy.

00:18:59.031 --> 00:19:02.751
Someone there must have known, surely, I mean, if you're in a car or even running

00:19:02.751 --> 00:19:06.291
beside it, you'd think that you'd know exactly where it is if you're only a

00:19:06.291 --> 00:19:09.531
few feet away, wouldn't you? Well, that's one person's testimony.

00:19:09.691 --> 00:19:14.851
Another person's testimony that gave a lot of weight to me was Marilyn Sitzman

00:19:14.851 --> 00:19:18.331
was the receptionist that worked with Abraham Zapruder.

00:19:18.611 --> 00:19:24.011
And they worked right across Houston from the School Book Depository in what's

00:19:24.011 --> 00:19:25.551
called the Dow Tech's building.

00:19:25.551 --> 00:19:31.611
And Zapruder and his partner ran a shop where they basically designed and manufactured

00:19:31.611 --> 00:19:33.751
young women's dresses and clothing.

00:19:34.131 --> 00:19:39.471
And Marilyn Sitzman knew that Abraham Zapruder loved to film things with his

00:19:39.471 --> 00:19:40.911
new motion picture camera.

00:19:41.151 --> 00:19:44.451
He had a Bell and Hal camera, top of the line, state of the art,

00:19:44.531 --> 00:19:48.231
newest camera. And he shows up for work on the morning of the assassination.

00:19:48.511 --> 00:19:50.471
And she's like, Mr. Z, where's your camera?

00:19:51.031 --> 00:19:54.251
Ah, honey, I forgot I left at home. She goes, you're going to not be happy.

00:19:54.251 --> 00:19:57.871
You're going to regret it if you don't film the president.

00:19:57.991 --> 00:20:01.871
Yeah, you're right. So he runs home and he gets the camera. He comes back and gets the camera.

00:20:02.111 --> 00:20:06.231
He says to Marilyn Sitzman, who he appears to me, she's 31 at the time,

00:20:06.651 --> 00:20:08.531
fairly close to, she's an employee.

00:20:09.031 --> 00:20:12.811
You want to go down to Dealey Plaza with me? I'm going to look for a place to film.

00:20:13.071 --> 00:20:18.191
He gets down there and he finds the famous pedestal from which he did the filming.

00:20:18.391 --> 00:20:23.091
And he says, you know, I have a touch of vertigo. I might struggle up here on the pedestal.

00:20:23.211 --> 00:20:26.791
Will you come and hold me? She said, yes, sir. I absolutely will.

00:20:27.111 --> 00:20:34.211
So she stands behind him and holds him up. He died tragically of cancer in her 60s, in the early 90s.

00:20:34.331 --> 00:20:37.811
And she did a last interview, which is on YouTube as well, you can find.

00:20:37.971 --> 00:20:40.491
And the interviewer said, what do you remember?

00:20:41.011 --> 00:20:44.831
Ha! I heard a sound. I thought it was a firecracker. Same thing.

00:20:45.131 --> 00:20:49.651
Where was it? I just know it was behind me. Well, the schoolbook depository

00:20:49.651 --> 00:20:52.051
from that angle, it's behind and to the left.

00:20:52.371 --> 00:20:55.611
But she said, then it started to register as I held Mrs.

00:20:55.891 --> 00:21:00.951
Zapruder. I think something's going on in the car. Then when his head exploded on the last shot.

00:21:01.472 --> 00:21:04.432
She recognized, oh my God, they've shot the president.

00:21:04.952 --> 00:21:08.372
Somebody asked me, because I've been to Dealey Plaza like 20 times.

00:21:08.492 --> 00:21:11.392
I don't know how many times. I love Texas. I go to Dallas and drop the hat.

00:21:11.472 --> 00:21:12.272
I've been there many times.

00:21:12.472 --> 00:21:15.672
So somebody asked him one time, like, Jack, next time you're there,

00:21:15.832 --> 00:21:18.972
stand on Zapruder's pedestal. I'm like, okay, just look to your right.

00:21:19.312 --> 00:21:23.272
I'm like, okay, seriously, just look to your right. And the next time I knew

00:21:23.272 --> 00:21:24.212
what they were talking about.

00:21:24.352 --> 00:21:29.912
If you stand on Zapruder's pedestal and you look to the right towards the picket

00:21:29.912 --> 00:21:32.872
fence, the famous fence on the top of the grassy knoll.

00:21:33.232 --> 00:21:37.692
It looks like it's 50 feet away. I mean, it's like, whoa, it's that close.

00:21:37.892 --> 00:21:41.812
So Marilyn Sisman was asked, how many shots did you hear? She goes, three.

00:21:42.312 --> 00:21:45.132
Three. Yes, I'm positive it was three. And when the headshot was fired,

00:21:45.192 --> 00:21:49.852
I realized it was an assassination. And Mr. Zapruder and I just froze. He kept filming.

00:21:50.472 --> 00:21:54.512
I was shocked that he didn't drop the camera and run, but he keeps filming.

00:21:54.692 --> 00:21:59.152
And I hold on to him. And then they said, then you heard another loud sound. She goes, yes.

00:21:59.452 --> 00:22:04.372
Someone knocked a Coke bottle off of this pedestal beside us and it hit the

00:22:04.372 --> 00:22:06.072
concrete and that kind of woke me up.

00:22:06.332 --> 00:22:11.952
Then the guy said, were there any shots fired from behind you four o'clock to

00:22:11.952 --> 00:22:14.252
the right and behind you? He goes, absolutely not.

00:22:14.572 --> 00:22:18.892
Unless it was a silencer. Well, people that know firearms know that suppressors

00:22:18.892 --> 00:22:24.312
don't really silence bullets to zero or firearms to zero.

00:22:24.532 --> 00:22:28.732
And she said, I never heard a shot from behind me to the right,

00:22:28.872 --> 00:22:32.572
which would have been the grassy knoll. I don't believe there's a grassy knoll shot.

00:22:32.832 --> 00:22:37.332
Even Sarah Wex, who just passed away here a few years ago, who was the one pathologist

00:22:37.332 --> 00:22:41.312
when the House selected many on assassinations, he was the one out of eight

00:22:41.312 --> 00:22:45.492
that didn't like the single bullet fair and a lot, but he conceded what the

00:22:45.492 --> 00:22:47.012
wounds to Kennedy's head were.

00:22:47.192 --> 00:22:52.212
And he said Kennedy had no damage to the left hemisphere of his head.

00:22:52.372 --> 00:22:57.072
So if that bullet had struck Kennedy in the fashion that people want to believe

00:22:57.072 --> 00:23:00.172
from the grassy knoll, it's coming in at two o'clock.

00:23:00.653 --> 00:23:03.313
So when one imagines looking straight ahead, it's 12 o'clock,

00:23:03.473 --> 00:23:04.733
3 o'clock out of the right ear.

00:23:04.993 --> 00:23:08.773
That bullet has to be coming in at 2 o'clock. And for the bullet to come in

00:23:08.773 --> 00:23:12.513
at 2 o'clock and do no damage to the left side of his brain,

00:23:12.653 --> 00:23:13.973
to me, is difficult to imagine.

00:23:14.313 --> 00:23:17.873
A bullet entering in the back of his head, just right of the center line,

00:23:18.013 --> 00:23:23.853
and exiting through the top right portion of the head, or this part of the head, is consistent to me.

00:23:23.973 --> 00:23:28.553
But all the doctors and all the autopsy reports said there was absolutely no

00:23:28.553 --> 00:23:30.333
damage to the left hemisphere of the brain.

00:23:30.653 --> 00:23:34.033
And I can't imagine an incoming shot from 2 o'clock who would not have done

00:23:34.033 --> 00:23:36.233
some entry into that force that they had.

00:23:37.953 --> 00:23:43.533
I hear what you say, but there's been a lot of talk about, was it Oswald alone?

00:23:43.973 --> 00:23:47.953
Was it Castro thinking it was revenge? Was it LBJ?

00:23:48.393 --> 00:23:53.733
All these people that you could put, they had a reason to do it, if you like.

00:23:53.933 --> 00:23:56.693
Well, who would have put Oswald there? What was the connection?

00:23:57.053 --> 00:23:59.553
All right, let me tell you a story. I knew I was going to come to this because

00:23:59.553 --> 00:24:00.773
it's the best story I can tell.

00:24:01.293 --> 00:24:06.393
So in 1990, I go to Dilly Plaza. I go back in 92. And in 94,

00:24:06.453 --> 00:24:09.013
I go down with a friend. We decided to go down to Dallas.

00:24:09.573 --> 00:24:13.613
And this friend of mine is tied up at a convention. So I drive a friend off

00:24:13.613 --> 00:24:15.833
at convention, and I ride to Dilly Plaza.

00:24:16.073 --> 00:24:18.993
I've got all this time in Dallas. I'm just going to run around Dilly Plaza,

00:24:19.133 --> 00:24:20.833
argue with people, see stuff, whatever.

00:24:21.253 --> 00:24:25.893
And I get out there the first day, and a guy in a suit, he's in a suit and tie,

00:24:25.893 --> 00:24:28.553
kind of comes running down the grass and knowing goes, hey, dude,

00:24:29.110 --> 00:24:31.350
Who do you think did it? I'm like, hey, I'm one of those crazy.

00:24:31.470 --> 00:24:35.430
This is one year after my thesis. I wrote a master's thesis I just completed.

00:24:35.850 --> 00:24:41.390
And I'm like, yeah, you too. What's your story? And his response, at the time, I'm 32.

00:24:41.730 --> 00:24:45.950
And this guy's like 35, 36. He's about three, four years older than I am.

00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:51.050
And he said, I grew up in northern Virginia, near D.C., Washington, D.C.

00:24:51.150 --> 00:24:53.390
And my daddy is somebody.

00:24:53.710 --> 00:25:00.030
And I went, okay. And he said, so in 1978, in the midst of the House Select

00:25:00.030 --> 00:25:05.290
Committee on Assassination, my daddy made some phone call and he got me in as

00:25:05.290 --> 00:25:07.750
a page to the House Select Committee on Assassination.

00:25:08.530 --> 00:25:11.930
It is, what are you doing tomorrow? That day in 94, I'm like, nothing.

00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:14.990
So the next day, we go to where Oswald

00:25:14.990 --> 00:25:18.390
was killed at the downtown Dallas headquarters, police headquarters.

00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:23.930
We go out to 1026 North Beckley Avenue where Oswald room. We went out to the

00:25:23.930 --> 00:25:28.290
214 Neely Street address where the backyard photograph was taken. We do it all.

00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:31.730
So at the end of the night, we go out with my friend. We go to dinner.

00:25:31.930 --> 00:25:36.330
At the end of dinner, same guy says, hey, I'm a pilot for American Airlines.

00:25:36.530 --> 00:25:40.070
When I fly into Dallas, I like to come out here and hang out in Dealey Plaza

00:25:40.070 --> 00:25:41.930
because I know so much about the assassination.

00:25:42.510 --> 00:25:47.570
And he said, he said, can you do me a favor tomorrow and take me to the airport

00:25:47.570 --> 00:25:49.610
so I can save a taxi? I'm like, sure.

00:25:49.830 --> 00:25:53.970
So I go to the hotel where he's staying. And I go to pick him up and I pick

00:25:53.970 --> 00:25:56.470
him up and I drive him to the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport.

00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:01.910
He's got an American Airlines garment bag and he pulls up to the front right

00:26:01.910 --> 00:26:04.070
here. There's a door, says American Airlines personnel.

00:26:04.795 --> 00:26:07.995
So he grabs the bag and he's getting out of the car and it strikes me.

00:26:08.915 --> 00:26:12.095
And this turned out to be true. I leaned over the seat and I said,

00:26:12.155 --> 00:26:16.295
hey, dude, I may not ever see you again. And I haven't. I mean, I never hear.

00:26:16.435 --> 00:26:19.115
It was pre-cell phone. It's not like we exchanged numbers.

00:26:19.375 --> 00:26:23.415
And I said, hey, tell me something. If you saw all this that you saw,

00:26:23.715 --> 00:26:25.935
tell me what I'm not going to learn for 50 years.

00:26:26.115 --> 00:26:31.575
And he leans back in the car and he goes, dude, Oswald did it. I saw everything.

00:26:31.955 --> 00:26:34.655
And I'm like, okay. he goes to promise who he

00:26:34.655 --> 00:26:37.595
did it for and i went oh and then he said

00:26:37.595 --> 00:26:40.435
he was government dirty from hand to toe

00:26:40.435 --> 00:26:43.955
going to the soviet union there were eight other soldiers

00:26:43.955 --> 00:26:50.235
and sailors and marines that went to the soviet union as defectors it was like

00:26:50.235 --> 00:26:56.675
a program now who he was programmed for who he did all he said and then as years

00:26:56.675 --> 00:27:03.115
went by and i saw all these presidents pull out at the end to not release the rest of the documents.

00:27:03.455 --> 00:27:06.575
Bush, I mean, Trump was supposed to do it first, Trump didn't.

00:27:06.755 --> 00:27:08.615
Biden kicked the can down the road.

00:27:09.095 --> 00:27:13.475
Now Trump says again, it's open. You know, we're going to release it all as

00:27:13.475 --> 00:27:20.295
per the 1993 congressional directive that by 19, I'm sorry, 1993,

00:27:20.295 --> 00:27:23.355
that by 2017, everything would be released.

00:27:23.675 --> 00:27:28.915
So every time it got kicked down the road, I kept thinking it could be,

00:27:28.915 --> 00:27:31.255
and this is what I think has come out recently,

00:27:31.615 --> 00:27:36.415
it could be egged on the face of the agencies that should have known better

00:27:36.415 --> 00:27:43.275
and known what a threat Oswald was up to those same agencies were behind him doing it.

00:27:43.335 --> 00:27:45.675
I think it's any one of those possibilities.

00:27:45.955 --> 00:27:49.655
Are you all speaking? The way the government knew what was going to happen,

00:27:50.135 --> 00:27:51.375
but did nothing about it.

00:27:52.175 --> 00:27:55.535
Well, they knew about Oswald because what's come out, one of the things that

00:27:55.535 --> 00:27:58.775
recently came out is James Jesus Angleton.

00:27:58.915 --> 00:28:02.115
Anybody that saw the movie The Good Shepherd, played by Matt Damon,

00:28:02.555 --> 00:28:08.795
it was based upon the life of James Jesus Angleton, who was known as the mole hunter.

00:28:08.995 --> 00:28:13.435
It was the CIA's vellet, bigotry to the CIA. He was a CIA member,

00:28:13.935 --> 00:28:16.795
Yale graduate, skull of bone, secret society type.

00:28:17.135 --> 00:28:21.815
He had Oswald's mail surveilled in 1959.

00:28:22.435 --> 00:28:29.615
They knew who Oswald was. Now, one great example, though, of is it government inefficiency?

00:28:29.955 --> 00:28:34.715
Is it, you know, keystone cops? Is it bad actors?

00:28:35.115 --> 00:28:40.355
Is what happened with the threat to James Hosting, which came out in the 1970s?

00:28:40.455 --> 00:28:41.915
I think it was known even earlier than that.

00:28:42.415 --> 00:28:45.495
But that has been famously portrayed in some of the movies.

00:28:45.655 --> 00:28:49.975
I think it was Parkland when they showed this scene. What happened was when

00:28:49.975 --> 00:28:56.275
Oswald comes back to Dallas from the Soviet Union in the summer of 62, he's not debriefed.

00:28:56.415 --> 00:29:00.215
Nobody really gets hot and bothered about it. He just kind of comes back and

00:29:00.215 --> 00:29:01.535
after like nothing's ever happened.

00:29:01.935 --> 00:29:06.815
But agencies are following him around. And we already know this since 59,

00:29:07.315 --> 00:29:08.915
they're going through his mail.

00:29:08.915 --> 00:29:15.135
So Hostey gets put in position to check on Oswald for the FBI at the Dallas

00:29:15.135 --> 00:29:17.695
headquarter, to the Dallas field office of the FBI.

00:29:17.935 --> 00:29:22.155
And when he goes out and tries to make contact with Oswald on more than one

00:29:22.155 --> 00:29:24.075
occasion, he runs into Marina.

00:29:24.615 --> 00:29:29.375
Then Marina, at one point, gets a business card and gives it to Lee and said,

00:29:29.455 --> 00:29:33.215
yeah, this Hostey guy keeps coming by in her broken English and or Russian.

00:29:33.215 --> 00:29:40.575
And Oswald is supposed to have gone to that field office in Dallas on or about November 8th.

00:29:40.675 --> 00:29:43.375
Comes up into the office, receptionist says, can I help you?

00:29:43.415 --> 00:29:47.255
Yeah, yeah, I want to talk to that host you got. Now, well, he's out in the field.

00:29:47.515 --> 00:29:50.955
Well, give me a notepad and he writes something and leaves.

00:29:51.315 --> 00:29:55.295
So then the shooting happens and the way it's depicted in one of the movies, I think it was Parkland.

00:29:55.735 --> 00:30:00.315
Gordon Shanklin, who runs that office, comes out into the pit where all these

00:30:00.315 --> 00:30:02.395
people are out there with typewriters and deaths.

00:30:02.655 --> 00:30:06.755
They said, hey, Hostie, come to my attention. You got a threatening note from Oswald?

00:30:06.955 --> 00:30:10.735
He goes, well, yeah, sir, but why did I make a big deal? People threaten all

00:30:10.735 --> 00:30:13.695
the time. He goes, well, this guy shot the president, you dumbass.

00:30:13.915 --> 00:30:15.895
Bring me the note. So he looks at the note.

00:30:16.235 --> 00:30:22.515
Now, when Oswald's killed 48 hours after Kennedy, pronounced dead on Sunday

00:30:22.515 --> 00:30:27.935
the 24th at 1P107VM, the story goes, Shanklin calls Hostie into his office.

00:30:28.075 --> 00:30:29.875
He goes, hey, all that Oswald stuff.

00:30:30.407 --> 00:30:34.567
Get rid of it. Hostey has brought in the file. He goes, no, no,

00:30:34.847 --> 00:30:36.227
get the hell out of my office.

00:30:36.447 --> 00:30:42.807
Get it out now and get rid of it. So Hostey, testifying in the mid-70s before

00:30:42.807 --> 00:30:46.727
one of those, it was either Rockefeller Committee or Rockefeller or Frank Church.

00:30:46.967 --> 00:30:52.207
He says, when called in by my boss, Superior, to destroy the note,

00:30:52.507 --> 00:30:55.607
I was tearing it up, lighting it on fire and flushing it down the toilet.

00:30:55.747 --> 00:31:00.787
I just got rid of it. But that has been used by conspiracy people to say what

00:31:00.787 --> 00:31:04.667
they would have done with that if they wanted to paint Oswald as a lone nut

00:31:04.667 --> 00:31:08.007
shooter and say, look, he's a violent guy. He threatened FBI personnel.

00:31:08.307 --> 00:31:12.807
Why did they hide it? The response to that is, what if J.

00:31:12.947 --> 00:31:19.227
Edgar Hoover in Washington finds out his boys in Dallas knew Oswald was a threat

00:31:19.227 --> 00:31:20.787
and didn't do anything about it?

00:31:20.907 --> 00:31:24.847
And that's what Shanklin was upset about. Now, when you got this note,

00:31:25.107 --> 00:31:28.547
why didn't you go right out and find Oswald, sink him down, bring him in for

00:31:28.547 --> 00:31:32.007
questioning, apprehend him, whatever, but he didn't do anything?

00:31:32.327 --> 00:31:34.867
He may not have done anything because he's simply lazy.

00:31:35.227 --> 00:31:38.167
He makes as much money sitting around the office as he does going out there

00:31:38.167 --> 00:31:39.167
and doing anything about it.

00:31:39.387 --> 00:31:45.187
Now, another discrepancy is Hostey said that the note said something like,

00:31:45.347 --> 00:31:50.487
if you guys don't stop bothering my wife, I'm going to take this before the proper authorities.

00:31:50.487 --> 00:31:56.027
The receptionist said it was more like, if you don't come out or if you don't

00:31:56.027 --> 00:31:59.087
stop coming out to bother my wife, I'm going to blow up this building,

00:31:59.327 --> 00:32:00.567
which is a lot different.

00:32:00.787 --> 00:32:06.667
But the point is, I can see it through the lens of it could have very well been

00:32:06.667 --> 00:32:09.847
FBI personnel covering their ass. That's all it was.

00:32:10.007 --> 00:32:14.427
And I can also say this. I do believe the federal government without question

00:32:14.427 --> 00:32:17.767
covered up the assassination from the American public.

00:32:17.927 --> 00:32:20.287
But it could have been to avert World War III.

00:32:20.487 --> 00:32:25.447
So when people, when you just mentioned, is it Cuba? Is it the Soviet Union? Is it the mob?

00:32:25.747 --> 00:32:29.607
It could have been any one of those things where they had an inkling it was.

00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.820
And they could have been thinking, hey, if we're going to be American people

00:32:32.820 --> 00:32:36.220
and think it's Castro, they're going to want an invasion of Cuba and Amar,

00:32:36.260 --> 00:32:38.260
which is going to trigger a war with the Soviet Union.

00:32:38.540 --> 00:32:43.640
And I don't think any of them thought that World War III and 50 million deaths

00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:48.300
was worth it. It wasn't worth Kennedy's life. And I think that's a fair assessment.

00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:54.060
But do I also think the government probably knew about Oswald?

00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:58.060
So, again, that's a line that's strong. And, you know, when you bring up LBJ,

00:32:58.420 --> 00:33:01.180
LBJ had every reason to want Kennedy did.

00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:03.420
First of all, he wanted to be president.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:09.560
He saw no other way in than to be vice president. And it does happen in Texas.

00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:15.640
There's supposed to be a major argument the night before about the seating in the motorcade.

00:33:16.460 --> 00:33:21.920
Lyndon Johnson apparently has a hustling fit with JFK about not wanting Conley

00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:23.740
in the car. And Kennedy's like,

00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:28.600
no, protocol is the chief executives of federal and state sit together.

00:33:28.840 --> 00:33:31.720
You sit back there with Ralph Yarbrough, who he can't stand.

00:33:32.260 --> 00:33:39.540
Yarbrough is the very liberal U.S. senator from Texas. He can't stand Conley nor LBJ.

00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:46.080
And then Kennedy famously said, Yarbrough was going to have to ride with LBJ,

00:33:46.220 --> 00:33:47.500
Lyndon Johnson, or walk.

00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:51.740
So they're pissing and voting and fighting among the Democrats, the Texas Democrats.

00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:56.200
But it is interesting that Kennedy gets killed in Dallas in the exit.

00:33:56.500 --> 00:34:02.140
And all control of the investigation after Oswald's death reverts to LBJ.

00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:07.200
There were quite a number of people who wanted a piece of John F.K.

00:34:07.540 --> 00:34:12.460
Well, Jack, it has been an eye-opener. And as you said, I don't think anyone

00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:18.320
will ever know the who or why about probably the most controversial assassination in his history.

00:34:19.700 --> 00:34:24.180
Thank you very much. Thanks for your time. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:29.520
Thank you for listening to Why Is It So? Make sure you tune in to our next episode.

00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:33.000
Remember, it's your last defence for common sense.